Witajcie
Dzisiaj tak na szybko…załóżmy, że kupiliście mieszkanie, mijają 3 lata, a tu okazuje się, że z powodu złej izolacji lub nawet z powodu jej braku pojawia Wam się grzyb na ścianie (na marginesie jest to poważne zagrożenie dla Waszego zdrowia, a nawet życia). Zgłaszacie ową usterkę deweloperowi, a on nonszalancko Was informuje, że upłynął 3 letni termin jego odpowiedzialności z tytułu rękojmi za wady fizyczne budynku… no owszem minął i co z tego…
Nie dajcie się zbyć takim deweloperom, oprócz odpowiedzialności z tytułu rękojmi deweloper odpowiada jeszcze z art. 471 kodeksu cywilnego za nienależyte wykonanie zobowiązania, a tutaj termin przedawnienia waszych roszczeń wynosi aż 10 lat!. Dla Was nie ma jakiejkolwiek odczuwalnej różnicy między tymi dwoma rodzajami odpowiedzialności (oczywiście takowe istnieją, ale w tego typu sprawach nie różnicują w ogóle waszej sytuacji).
Tym samym walczcie o swoje prawa….
Pozdrawiam
Andrzej Krysta
{ 28 komentarze… przeczytaj je poniżej albo dodaj swój }
No proszę, ostatnio miałam podobną sprawę i faktycznie nie wszyscy o tym wiedzą.
Bardzo ryzykowny tytuł. Między dochodzeniem roszczeń z rękojmi a w oparciu o art. 471 k.c. jest taka różnica, jak między mercedesem a traktorem. Wszystko przemawia na korzyść rękojmi, a zwłaszcza ciężar dowodu, tak ważny w tego typu sprawach.
Panie Arturze, co konkretnie ma Pan na myśli i co Pana skłania do tak obrazowego porównania? Interesuję się tą tematyką i z chęcią poznam Pańskie przemyślenia.
Witam Panie Arturze
Czy mógłby mi Pan wyjaśnić, co ma Pan na myśli pisząc o wadze ciężaru dowodu, który rzekomo przemawia na korzyść rękojmi? Chętnie podyskutuję…
Dziękuję za komentarz.
Pozdrawiam
Andrzej Krysta
O rękojmi czy szerzej: o środkach ochrony wierzyciela na wypadek naruszenia zobowiązania toczy się szeroka dyskusja również w kontekście aktualnych tendencji europejskich. Często postuluje się odejście od typizacji postaci naruszenia zobowiązań (w tym wady rzeczy sprzedanej) i różnicowania reżimów ochrony na rzecz ogólnej klauzuli istotnego (fundamentalnego) naruszenia zobowiązania wraz z ujednoliceniem uprawnień. Osobiście – a o rękojmi sporo przemyślałam, poświęciłam jej sporo miejsca w pracy doktorskiej i prowadziłam sprawy z tego zakresu – mam bardzo poważne wątpliwości, czy rzeczywiście z punktu widzenia kupującego i klauzul w umowach deweloperskich to taki „mercedes S klasy”. Biorąc choćby pod uwagę możliwość umownego wyłączenia odpowiedzialności z rękojmi i z 471….
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Przykładem może być treść art. 556(2), który ustawia kupującego konsumenta w bardzo korzystnej sytuacji, skoro „domniemywa się, że wada lub jej przyczyna istniała” w chwili wydania rzeczy. W niemal każdym procesie, w którym chodzi o wady budynku pojawia się problem wykazania podmiotu odpowiedzialnego za wadę. Wskazany przepis powoduje, że to sprzedawca ma obowiązek zwolnić się z odpowiedzialności. To istotna różnica.
Obawiam się, że ta korzyść może okazać się pozorna. W przypadku, który Pan podał wada lub jej przyczyna musi być stwierdzona musi być stwierdzona przed upływem roku od daty wydania rzeczy i przepis ten dotyczy wyłącznie umów zawartych przed 25 grudnia 2014 r. Nie rozwiązuje to problemu podanego we wpisie i nie usuwa niedogodności związanych z koniecznością wykazania wady, co w przypadku budynków najczęściej łączy się z opinią biegłego. Funkcjonują jednak obrocie cały czas „stare” umowy na „starych” przepisach, dochodzi do sytuacji, gdy rękojmia została wyłączona na niekorzyść konsumenta, a nawet gdyby uznać to za klauzule abuzywną, to i tak by przepadła, bo minął termin, a więc chcąc nie chcąc, nie pozostaje nic innego jak sięgnąć po to, co jest jeszcze możliwe czyli „stare dobre” odszkodowanie, a to jeszcze po”przebiciu się” przez jego wyłączenie w umowie. Sprawa nie jest prosta ;(
Jeśli przywołany przepis dotyczy „umów zawartych przed 25 grudnia 2014 r.”, to ma zastosowanie do podanego przypadku :-).
Zgadza się, że przy rękojmi wada ma być stwierdzona przed upływem roku. Ale przecież chodziło o to, że niby reklamacja jest przereklamowana. Ma ona swoje minusy, ale i bardzo istotne plusy, jak podane domniemanie. Nie ma potrzeby wykazywania wady, gdyż ona jest domniemana. Jeśli w ciągu roku wyjdzie przysłowiowy grzyb w budynku, to wtedy każdy uzna, że to wada – a z domniemania wynika – że odpowiada za nią wykonawca. bo jej źródło istniało w momencie wydania. Wtedy reklamujący nie musi nawet wnioskować o biegłego. To ewentualnie sprzedawca będzie musiał zawnioskować biegłego (złożyć właściwy wniosek, wyłożyć zaliczkę), aby wykazać, że np. ta wada jest wynikiem niewłaściwego użytkowania lokalu. Na tym polega różnica.
W przypadku art. 471 jest inaczej. Wszystkie przesłanki musi wykazać powód na ogólnych zasadach. Ów zwrot „chyba, że” w praktyce nie ma praktycznie żadnego znaczenia. Wynika to stąd, że trzeba powód musi najpierw udowodnić, że mamy do czynienia z wadą. W tym celu to powód musi powołać biegłego. Z kolei biegły – niejako z urzędu – będzie ustalał czy istnieje związek przyczynowy między wadą a zachowaniem sprzedawcy. Ten przepis przenosi ciężar procesu jednak na kupującego.
Rozumiem zamysł wpisu. Jest słuszny. Ale rękojmia – jeśli dochodzi się w terminie – jest korzystniejsza dla kupującego. Poza tym, można podać jeszcze inna podstawę dochodzenia roszczeń. Niezniszczalny i niezatapialny art. 415 k.c.
A co do ciężaru dowodu, to dodam jeszcze, że w 471 to dłużnik ma wykazać, że niewykonanie lub nienależyte wykonanie zobowiązania jest następstwem okoliczności, za które dłużnik nie ponosi odpowiedzialności…
That’s 2 clever by half and 2×2 clever 4 me. Thnsak!
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Przepis oczywiście dotyczy umów zawartych po Świętach 2014 r.;) W moim przekonaniu, jak mamy grzyba czy inne dziadostwo, z przepisu wynika jedynie domniemanie kiedy grzyb/inne dziadostwo powstały, jeżeli grzyba/inne dziadostwo stwierdzono przed upływem roku. Wydaje mi się, że tak czy inaczej trzeba wykazać – w taki czy inny sposób – że grzyb/inne dziadostwo są. Bałabym się – nawet u Pana – złożyć jedynie np. pismo konsumenta wskazujące wadę w stylu: „Straszny deweloperze, bo u mnie jest grzyb/inne dziadostwo”. Każdy sobie może tak napisać. Mimo wszystko przedłożyłabym dowody, że grzyb/inne dziadostwo są i zostały zauważone przed upływem roku.
415 jest niezniszczalny, ale w to bym nie szła, mając do wyboru odpowiedzialność kontraktową.
Pozdrawiam!
Widzę, że tu już cały problem już omówiony zanim zdążyłem się włączyć…
Pozdrawiam zatem obojgu szanownych adwersarzy, bardzo dziękuję za ciekawą dyskusję i argumentację.
Andrzej Krysta
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